DevOps Definition Debate

wait, is that what devops means to you? That devs are doing ops?

Why can't your developers be "devops people"?

The goal of dev is to be able to change everything whenever they want.The goal of ops is to have a strong infra that has the fewest changes possible.They are opposite and usually there are more devs than ops but the first respondent to an issue are ops.You can only have devops if both roles are intertwined in the same team AND, the organization understands the implications.Everywhere I've been, devops was just an excuse to transfer ops responsibilities to dev because dev where c

You were on the DevOps team! They did what ops did!

What I have noticed more and more often lately is people who say:"Yeah, I'm in team X and I do the Devops part"So we basically have an "ops" person sitting with the devs, and call the team a "devops" team. The devs have still no idea how to deploy their code. The ops have still no idea how the code looks like. But hey everyone feels better.This is also true for many job offers in the form of "looking for a devops engineer". No, what they are

Sounds like the devops team is really just an ops team and you’re not actually doing devops.

There is no DevOps role. There is no DevOps team. Devs doing Ops != DevOps. DevOps is about tearing down silos (Dev and Ops), not creating new ones.

DevOps is an education and communication position. You won't get the devs to do ops, since they are good at development and don't know much about ops and the same applies to ops in reverse. You need people (ideally, on each product team) who understand enough of both sides to efficiently communicate problems and facilitate solutions. Before you make your devs write provisioning scripts for databases (which they can do, but probably won't get the trade-offs of different parameters)

I've worked in devops roles so I don't really need (or agree) with your description. Thanks anyway.

That's ... not remotely devopsWhat you're describing is a legacy, traditional, (and terrible!) 'ops will fix it' mentality that often permeates larger companies where dev teams 'throw stuff over the wall' to another team for production deployments, outage triage, etcA company with a devops culture deeply involves both developers and operations oriented folks from the start of a project to ensure best practices, reliability, and observability are being baked in