Trusting Software/Hardware

The cluster discusses the inevitability of trusting third-party software, hardware, compilers, and audits, even for open-source code, with frequent references to Ken Thompson's 'Reflections on Trusting Trust' and debates on whether full verification is possible.

➡️ Stable 0.6x Security
4,066
Comments
20
Years Active
5
Top Authors
#4286
Topic ID

Activity Over Time

2007
6
2008
8
2009
21
2010
27
2011
51
2012
85
2013
188
2014
150
2015
212
2016
224
2017
254
2018
283
2019
241
2020
332
2021
391
2022
396
2023
391
2024
364
2025
405
2026
39

Keywords

ReflectionsOnTrustingTrust.pdf OSS DOGE labs.com trust.en cm.bell www.cs trust.html HN stanford.edu trust trusting reflections software security code thompson ken secure threat model

Sample Comments

zarmin Aug 9, 2024 View on HN

The problem isn't the _user's_ trust in the software....

kgwxd Sep 12, 2018 View on HN

Wouldn't it be nice to have software you didn't have to trust?

parasubvert Dec 29, 2024 View on HN

If you don't personally write the software stack on your devices, at some point you have to trust a third party.

theshrike79 Jun 10, 2024 View on HN

If we can't trust independent audits of code and hardware, what can we trust?

js2 May 5, 2023 View on HN

I anticipated this reply which is why I added the qualifier "anywhere but on your own device." Unless you intend to manufacture your own device from scratch, at some point you have to place your trust somewhere. See "reflections on trusting trust":https://web

manquer Sep 21, 2021 View on HN

There are always components you cannot fully trust . Ken Thompson's reflections on trusting trust [1] comes to mindTrust depends on threat model, if your threat model includes such actors/potential attack vectors then you should worry, ultimately you are depending on someone code for any reasonable abstractions (even ignoring chip level comprises)[1] <a href="https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~rdriley/487/papers/Thompson_1984_ReflectionsonTrustingTrust.pdf" re

Strom Nov 8, 2016 View on HN

Do you personally review every bit of code that runs on your device? No? Then you're trusting someone else who claims it's secure. No different than trusting Apple/Google.

29athrowaway Jul 26, 2022 View on HN

Can you trust your computer? by Richard Stallmanhttps://www.gnu.org/philosophy/can-you-trust.en.html

nix23 May 24, 2020 View on HN

Why would you ever trust Hardware and or proprietary Soft/Firmware.

illiac786 Aug 20, 2023 View on HN

I understand but I read the statement differently. It's a description of their security model simply. Sure they could be lying like any other company, so a certain amount of trust is required.Unless you read and compiled the code yourself and run it locally, some level of trust is always required.