Java Verbosity and Bloat

I think the verbosity of Java is all in your head

I think Java is oaky-ish. Much more commonly than core Java itself, Java libraries are being criticized for verbosity. All of those satire AbstractSingletonWorkerFactoryImpls come from real world experience. I personally see a lot of design pattern use for the sake of use without considering benefits that would bring. I see Java code happily introduce two line boilerplate to median call just to shave single line from an edge case. Scattered all over the codebase this makes business logic

Speaking as a near 20 year Java programmer, Java is criminally bloated at every level. The ecosystem has been covering for its shortcomings since y2k. That ecosystem is so thick and full of abstraction that no two devs from different framework backgrounds would recognize the others code as Java. And the abstraction... it is a language for people who are more interested is the abstractions than actually getting things done.

The problem is not the language. It is possible to write very elegant and well-structured software in Java. The abstraction bloat usually seen in Java software comes from somewhere else, and I’m not sure where. Is it a symptom of corporate software? Is it Java’s popularity that attracts lots of mediocre programmers? Or is it that Java is often used for solving complex problems that are by definition hard to get right?

Can you convince me to use Java? I’ve never used it (only C++, Python, CL) but it feels bloated and dirty.

Java forces OOP and it's verbosity is worse than COBOL.

Java's code verbose-ness is not entirely due to static typing though. IMHO, it is ecosystem, people, SO-copy-culture

Not that I disagree, but in my experience a lot of the code in a Java application is just a workaround for the poor expressiveness of the language. A lot of the stuff one has to do in Java to get halfway decent encapsulation/abstraction is just not necessary if you use a more expressive language and write code in a more functional way. Not that JavaScript makes that particularly easy or that it's even a nice language, but it is more expressive than Java. With first class functions and clo

Is this why people call "Java is too verbose"?

... and people complain that Java is verbose???